You seem to be in favor of arguing “that one to death”… as if simply repeating “There’s no place like home” over and over will get you back to Kansas and out of Oz.

Negative campaigning? Are you saying that that Seals didn’t campaign negatively last time out? Be serious!

The gas stunt was a circus sideshow. Radio station disc jockeys pull the same stunts. Buying votes with gasoline. Buying listeners with gasoline. Which stunt is probably illegal? But we’ve argued that one to death. Check out the Fox News video of Seals nervously blaming high gasoline prices on now 30 years of government policies and the ducking of gas prices doubling in two years the Democrats have controlled Congress. Oberweis II!

So the Seals campaign notified who what where when huh? The police in their press statements have been pretty convincing and consistent. The police called the Seals campaign an hour before it began when the police got wind of the event. From what I’m hearing, this stunt and the mealy mouthed response of the Seals campaign may have cost them the endorsement of the Waukegan News-Sun.

The who what where when huh responses of the Seals campaign is childish, not only as to this issue, but on others in the past they have been caught with.

Keep bending over backwards trying to defend that conduct, and you’ll be looking like a pretzel.

A candidate saying something a bit different than his campaign staff on a minor point is hardly analogous to perennial loser Jim Oberweis.

But you go right ahead and keep belaboring your circus sideshows while others try talking about issues that actually matter.

As to a crystal ball, these gas station give away stunts going back a few year now always draw huge crowds, whether they are done by a radio station or by other politicians as others have noted. Anticipating a line of cars that would block traffic in the street is not as far fetched as you are trying to make it.

Interesting that the Waukegan News-Sun gave him a “dart” over a week later for this event. And they rarely give “darts” to Democrats nor have they been very friendly to Kirk, unlike the Daily Herald or Tribune. Did this stunt cost Seals a newspaper endorsement?

You Democrats have Dan Seals. We Republicans have Jim Oberweis. Fair analogy?

The campaign did call the police department before the event — it may not have been days before as you apparently prefer, but they did call that morning before the event started when they and the gas station owner started getting wind that the turnout was likely to be much higher than planned for.

In that quote, Seals was owning up to his mistake of not being able to predict the future…

Unlike you, the Seals team does not have a magic crystal ball and wouldn’t have been able to predict a week in advance (is that enough time for you?) that exponentially more people were going to show up than anticipated.

Go ahead and keep trying to turn a positive event which earned Seals a ton of free media into a negative. Your complaints offer no solutions to the actual problem at the center of the discussion — out of control gas prices resulting from years of a hollow, ill-designed conservative energy policy.

It’s very weird that, at the heart of their argument, the Kirk supporters keep complaining that so many showed up to an event highlighting that gas prices have more than doubled since Rep. Kirk and Pres. Bush took office in January 2001.

(It’s even more weird — or should I say “wyrd”? — that the Backyard Conservative Anne Leary would also choose to rail against several liberal energy positions given that Congressman Kirk also professes to support those same positions…. But that’s for another day and another post, if I have time.)

The Seals Team DID NOT notify the municipality in advance of the event as they previously claimed.

The exact article is as follows:

“DART

“To Democratic 10th District congressional candidate Dan Seals, who last week held an event to highlight the cost of gas. He decided to offer gas to motorists at $1.85 a gallon, the price of gas when the incumbent, U.S. Rep. Mark Kirk, R-Highland Park, went to Washington in 2001. A huge traffic jam appeared on Milwaukee Avenue in Lincolnshire. Lincolnshire police were not amused and charged Seals’ campaign $2,200, which was paid the other day, for traffic detail. Said Seals: “In hindsight, had we anticipated such an overwhelming response from people who are so frustrated with the high price of gas and Washington’s failure to address this issue, we would have contacted local officials ahead of time, but we were as surprised as anyone about the response.” Let this be a lesson to other pols: Call ahead.”

Usual Seals for Congress behavior. State one thing, do something else, get caught at it, fib about it, then come full circle and grudgingly admit it.

Congressional material? I think not.

In your eyes giving away tchotchkes or offering discounted products (both acts that 99 44/100ths of campaigns in America make) may be the same as simply giving away cash, but the reality of our existing law is not the same as your opinion.

The East St. Louis case involved exactly as you say, campaigns giving out cash for votes.

Pure and simple.

But whether it was Kirk supporters lining the parade routes this morning with free stickers, signs and t-shirts or Seals calling attention to the rise in fuel costs through a discounted gas promotion, neither is the same as giving out greenbacks given the existing election code.

You’re reduced to talking in circles.

Kirk supporters put up yard signs in front of vacant lots, in addition to many areas that are off limits (adjacent to train stations, in front of vacant houses, etc.)

Kirk also has misled his constituents on many occasions, either by mistake, or by willful forethought.

He has claimed that George Soros polluted Waukegan Harbor (a blatant lie), that his environmental record was superior to Hillary Clinton (misleading, at BEST, outright false, at worst), and that reforms like those in the Mortgage Reform act of 2007 have been protested by southside pastors (not true).

Every statement Kirk makes should be fact checked.

My position on campaign reforms have been the same for over a decade. Now more and more folks are talking limits and bans and even the Illinois Senate Democrats passed a (watered down) version of limiting pay-to-play this week. Blagojevich is a walking advertisement to convince conservatives to come around. So my response is McCain also ought to get his act together pronto on this subject.

And why hasn’t Kirk pushed what? He has been pushing for more mass transit since he was first elected and helped fund a new line when he was still in the majority. But Democrats hate to bring up such “stuff.” Democrats even deny that he brought home that federal funding even after seeing the evidence.

And Seals as a challenger fell short of knocking him out of office last time during a Democratic landslide which swept a lot of other good Republicans (and some not so good ones) out both nationally and locally. And this was with Kirk taking his opponent’s actions lightly last time. This time (as you may have noticed by now) the Kirk campaign is much more aggressive. And that aggressiveness has local Democrats upset, how dare Kirk get all aggressive on Seals? Kirk turns the tables on them and they get upset. But I may be digressing here in trying to respond to you.

And in furthering the pattern of conduct of the Seals for Congress campaign (do something then backtrack and claim you either didn’t mean it, do it, or actually did something else) all those assurances you received from the Seals camp that they actually planned this out in advance with the Lindenhurst Police Department falls flat in the face of this 8/24/08 quote from the Chief of Police:

“Police Chief Randy Melvin said the village had to scramble to set up the traffic-control operation because the Seals campaign did not touch base with the village before hosting the event. It was only after several residents called Village Hall to ask about the promotion that the Police Department contacted the Seals campaign and learned about it, Melvin said.

“Our Public Works Department really jumped on it,” Melvin said. “They literally had to drop everything they were doing to help.”

Source: Clout Street (Chicago Tribune): http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/clout_st/20008/05/police-send-sea.html.

Who contacted who first and did what when huh? Usual Seals for Congress nonsense we in this region deal with. Only now we Kirk supporters are highlighting this behavior. Last time we let it slide. In the meantime Ellen of the 10th claims that having a press conference at a gas station is “almost the same thing” as buying gasoline for voters and handing out literature and shaking hands. Say what?

A whole flock of Democrats were convicted in the East St. Louis area a year or so ago for handing out cash on election day to voters. So how many days before an election does it take to make something like that (or gas purchasing an average of slightly over $20.00 per voter) legal? I used to be able to buy pens for less than a dollar for campaigns before I ended that practice. In my eyes, it is the same thing. And the Seals campaign is telling the Tribune now that they are still adding up what they spent in gasoline on the event? Are you going to try to tell me that the gas station owner let a political campaign walk away without paying? Or is the Seals for Congress campaign getting cold feet and trying to clam up on this subject?

We can spend hours developing alibi’s for “our people” when they screw up or when they skirt the law or break it (notice how I always hedge here) or we can call it what it is and demand an end to it: It’s really called bribery. In Church my priest is always quick to point out that “little sins” are sinful just like “big sins” are.

$1.00 for a pen. $5.00 a vote (in East St. Louis). $20.00 per automobile in gasoline. It’s all the same to me.

Next time Kirk “pulls off” an event that disrupts things because more people show up than expected we’ll be sure to keep track of all your negative comments and generally pooh-pooh attitude about it…

As has been stated several times:

1. The event was planned in advance. Word of mouth traveled fast and, with gas prices so out of whack after years of failed laissez faire conservative policies, more people than expected showed up.

2. The Seals team had planned to pay any police costs. They’ve stated so both directly to me (see above) and as noted in the original Daily Herald article.

Now that those costs are in, they’ll be paying the bill.

3-a. Please explain where the legal violation is in your estimation.

Not one single nattering nabob of negativity from your complaining side of this event has figured out just where the legal violation is.

If it’s in the distribution of a discounted product, then every single political candidate for Federal office all across America is guilty because every single political candidate for Federal office gives out either discounted or free products. In the eyes of the law, gas is no different than pizza is no different than a t-shirt is no different than a pen, etc.

And all are legal to distribute based on current Federal election regulations, including McCain-Feingold, etc. (Now, if you want to talk about FEC violations, John McCain himself does indeed appear to have violated the very law that bears his name and his campaign seems to be banking on the Republicans’ obstructionism over the FEC board in Congress which recently broke with the withdrawal of their highly controversial nominee.)

3-b. I understand your desire to have campaign finance reform be more stringent than it currently is and I can see a place for such a thing. But how can blind justice possibly distinguish between giving away promotional items like jackets, caps, shirts, etc. and giving away other products such as burgers, pop, gas, flashlights, magnets, pens….?

A very good argument can be made that there is material benefit to the consumers (ie, voters) from clothing, food, fuel, etc. Wouldn’t banning all those things be the very definition of overregulation?

My progressive-libertarian ears burn at hearing the thought.

4. Why hadn’t Rep. Kirk been pushing even harder for these issues — mass transit tax break, fuel economy, alternative fuels, etc. — while he was in the majority, before a certain challenger in 2006 (the year of the Dem tidal wave) came within a few points of knocking him out?

Again, I support those ideas (I’d like more details on actual intended implementation) but like quite a bit of his recent, as in since 2006, suddenly switched votes and platforms it seems a bit Johnny-come-lately, don’t you think?

I’d rather have someone in office representing me who has always been thinking in those terms instead of someone who seems to vacillate depending on the political winds.

5. Your quote-unquote standards on campaign finance reform run counter to the vast majority of your conservative comrades. I wish you well in convincing them of the correctness of your positions.

I’ve have directly corresponded with Ellen on her site (and found myself being immediately deleted when she couldn’t respond to my comments). So I’m not being unfair to Ellen. She knows where I stand with her (and vice-versa). And you were quick to immediately defend Seals without knowing all of the facts. Were police pulled off their routes and beats to deal with this stunt? How organized was this chaotic event?

What does it say about Dan Seals when his staff put on an event that was chaotic and negatively affected the neighborhood around it as opposed to Mark Kirk staff who had an organized and effective response (as noted by Miller and others) that actually had the Seals campaign struggle to keep to its message? Your response yesterday was you didn’t know or maybe didn’t care to know. Am I the bad guy for asking these questions?

TA is upset that the Kirk response was ridiculed by some, even you. In reality kudos have to be given to both campaigns, both for gettng tons of free publicity over a single event.

I noted your arguments yesterday on CapFax on energy. So you think then it is unfair to pound on one congressman (who has been strongly pushing a mass transit agenda for this area by the way with Melissa Bean of all people) for gas price increases in the last six years (when the prices have most dramatically increased the last two when Democrats have controlled the Federal Government)? Both comments are unfair but in an election season, they are to be expected.

It is not unfair however for someone like me (or you for that matter) to point out how unfair such comments are.

On the local front, the Seals campaign is now displaying yard signs in areas where local ordinances forbid them until after Labor Day. The last election his campaign did the same thing. When the local municipalities remove them, they then replace them. Their response? The mealy mouth type of response that Seals gave at the pumps when handing out literature and shaking hands: “I’m not really buying votes.” So either the Seals campaign has a slow learning curve or they are engaging in a pattern of conduct that deliberately skirt laws and regulations. That is but one example. Those of us paying close attention pick up on these things. Those like you who are more casually interested usually blow off such facts and miss the pattern of behavior.

Then what were you doing at that gas station Dan Seals? What is the difference between handing out bottles of booze to skid row types on election day with your campaign literature and pumping gas this week with your literature? The first example is clearly illegal, the second either may be or is just skirting the law. That is a legitimate debate issue. That is not blowing gas.

Will it be serious enough to prosecute or consider prosecuting? Will the U.S. Attorney even bother to look? The Kirk campaign calling them on it is not some nefarious conspiracy to bring the weight of the U.S. Attorney’s office on Dan Seals, waterboard him a few times and lock him up forever and hang him by his thumbs. They simply in effect called the police and reported what they though was illegal activity. The police take it from there. Some people call the police when they see a strange truck parked on someone’s driveway. Others don’t. Everyone’s perspective is different. The caller is either thwarting a robbery or interrupting a service call by a repair man.

If you notice my prior postings elsewhere, I am a conservative who is strongly in favor of increasing campaign reforms. I ran one campaign where I refused to give out little knick knacks to the public. So I’m not blowing gas, instead I want others to come up to my standards.

That does annoy some people, especially those who hate reporting requirements and playing by the rules. And it annoys the local Democrats in my region (Moraine Township: Highland Park, Lake Forest, Highwood) where they are vocal about it. My response. Follow the rules.

So you know where I stand on these matters.

By the way, I enjoy your postings even though I may not always agree with their contents. Keep up the good work and keep an open mind.

Or does it just mean that you and your friends are partisan hypocrites?

Ellen can speak for herself. I’ve never met her, but it’s odd that you’d choose to attack her in a completely different forum that she likely doesn’t even read as if she were the only straw you had left to grasp onto.

Perhaps complaining about her is your last resort…

For that matter, your complaints about me ring hollow.

I have been trying to bring up rational debate on the issue of high fuel costs both here and at CapFax. “Truthful James” and I in fact had a reasonable, if brief, discussion on the issue of energy at CapFax today.

I’ve even noted several times that I agree with some of Rep. Kirk’s points on the issue even as I acknowledge my disappointment on his inability to convince his GOP colleagues …

Every time I do make rational attempts to point out facts and discuss the issue in a reasonable manner folks such as yourself and TA yelp back with some manufactured bleeting like “How about some intelligent debate on issues for a change instead of cheap publicity stunts that either skirt the law or may break it?”

Which, by the way, you and your friends have yet to explain how any of what Mr. Seals did either broke the law or even so much as “skirted” it.

Either conservatives are for campaign finance reform or they are against it — y’all can’t have it both ways. If you think the act of candidates giving away items of value such as discounted gas or pizza and beer or ballcaps and t-shirts (or even “benchwarmers” as Melissa Bean famously did in her race against Phil Crane) ought to be illegal, then work to have such enacted into law through additional campaign finance regulations.

Til you do explain yourselves, you’re just blowing gas.

PS: Nobody on the Dem side is whining about anything — unless that’s what you like to call pointing out the facts in a calm manner.

Like Ellen of the 10th? And others who feel that Mark Kirk is Satan in the flesh! Mark Kirk favors starving families, murdering children, refusing to feed children, is against motherhood, apple pie and what else, yadda, yadda, yadda? When Kirk votes in favor of something she and her crazy spinners like, then he has some evil motive to do so.

When is Dan Seals going to throw a leash on their over the top postings?

Life is not as one-sided as you and Ellen like to portray it. It is the mad spinners on both sides that make life miserable for voters. How about some intelligent debate on issues for a change instead of cheap publicity stunts that either skirt the law or may break it?

No question that Kirk is taking Seals more seriously this time around. And you and your Democrats ought to stop whining about it and deal with it.

Now to go find my posse!